Even with a solid UFC Pay-Per-View event this weekend featuring two former UFC champions, a former PrideFC champion, and a winner of The Ultimate Fighter reality series, the only topic of discussion this week in the MMA world has been the return of Randy Couture to the UFC. While it is not at all surprising that Randy’s return has been the dominant news story, what has been surprising, to me at least, is the amount of raw emotion, disgust, and even hatred that the news has brought out in fight fans. Now don’t get me wrong, a lot of fans are thrilled Randy is back, but it’s always the “vocal minority” that gets noticed and talked about.
Here are just a few random samples of comments about Randy’s return both from MMA HQ and other MMA sites around the internet.
Am I the only one saddened by this? One win and Lesnar gets Randy? All b/c of TUF (i.e. Randy not fighting Big Nog)?
If Randy really goes back to the UFC, he wasted a year of his life.
Which shows at the end of the day, MMA suffers the same problems as Pro Wrestling. The main stars don’t have the balls (even nearing retirement) to challenge the establishment. Whether this be legally, or even in the form of a union. Couture is like another Hulk Hogan… just out for himself. Yet if either of them put their foot down, they could have protected an entire industry.
It’s a sad day for MMA fighters. The corporation defeated the employee, plain and simple. The day when fighters achieve justice has been indefinitely delayed, but the day will come.
What the hell, seriously, what the hell? Complete disrespect to Nog and Mir with this. Mir JUST beat Lesnar, Lesnar has beaten one guy in the UFC, has a 2-1 MMA record, and even if he is a freaking monster he does not deserve a title shot like this, no-way, no-how. Extremely dissapointed with this. Way to treat Werdum, Mir, and Nog like crap.
They had to provide a fight that would bring in the big bucks to satisfy Couture, he might say it’s not about the money, but considering he is coming back, this seems to have been a lie, right?
Wow. This is a fight worthy of EliteXC ! Next thing you know, Kimbo will fight Ken Shamrock. Oh, wait a minute…
And just like that Brock gets a title shot, I’d be surprised, but it’s expected from the UFC. The UFC has no credibility due to it’s obscure match making tactics.
Randy lost alot of respect from me by going back to the UFC. He has talked so much sh*t about them and still comes running back when Dana waves his checkbook.
This is absolutely disgraceful to MMA. I’m disgusted and you all should be too!!!
LOL i never thought id see the day when the UFC becomes a bigger circus than EliteXC…
and one of my favorite comments of all…
So does this mean Kim and Randy broke up?
What I really can’t gauge is what exactly is getting fans so riled up. Is it the simple fact that Randy is fighting again in the UFC after vowing he would never appear in the Octagon again? Is it not so much Randy’s return as it is the fact that Brock Lesnar is getting a shot at the UFC heavyweight title?
Zach Arnold had a good take on Randy’s return when he wrote up a list of all the “losers” with Randy’s return.
- Couture’s image, no doubt, takes a hit. He had a chance to fight ‘the man’ (UFC) and open up new legal possibilities for fighters, and in the end he took the money and cut his losses. It doesn’t make Couture ‘Mr. Evil’; it just makes him out to be the same as any other fighter in MMA. Dana White has good reason to be confident in stating that there will never be a union or fighter’s association in MMA.
- Affliction could be facing the prospects of not being able to book Couture vs. Fedor in their ring. You would have to assume that booking Couture vs. Fedor was going to be a major part of their business plan. After all, the two men shook hands at Affliction’s debut event in Anaheim.
- Unless Fedor agrees to fight the winner of Arlovski vs. Barnett (10/11 Las Vegas), WAMMA has to be prepared to strip the Russian of his title belt if he goes to UFC. Dana White will not allow any mentions of WAMMA whatsoever or even have that belt shown on PPV or TV.
- Out of all of the fighters in the MMA business, Randy Couture was in the best position to challenge parts of UFC’s somewhat controversial fighter contracts in regards to the clauses inserted into them. Now that Couture reportedly is back in the UFC fold, UFC will be able to breathe a big sigh of relief that none of the contractual provisions they make fighters sign (e.g. the retirement clause, the champion’s clause) will face a legal challenge any time soon.
Sure, Randy’s image will take a bit of a hit now, but wait a week or two, and especially after UFC 91, and no one will remember any of this nonsense. Whether Randy “came back for the money” or not, the simple truth is that is completely his prerogative. Randy makes a living just like the rest of us and his job just happens to be fighting. I’m pretty sure we all try to get as much salary as possible from our employer and Randy (and every other mixed martial artist) should not be criticized for doing so.
Sure, Couture was viewed as being in a position of leadership for other fighters and was viewed as the one fighter who could “bring about change” in the way current fighter contracts are structured. In reality, there was next to nothing Randy could do to drastically change the landscape of mixed martial arts. Zuffa had Randy under contract and his current legal options were very limited. Randy was also “up against the clock” so to speak with his age, and you can be guaranteed Randy will stop fighting long before he starts walking the path Ken Shamrock is currently strolling down. While we MMA journalists, bloggers, and critics love to talk about an MMA fighters union, or better pay for fighters, you don’t actually hear many fighters talk about the same issues. Could the simple fact be these things really aren’t a problem in the current MMA world?
Now, if you are upset that Brock Lesnar is getting a title shot so soon, having only a 1-1 record in the UFC, then lets look at UFC history for a comparison. Quinton Jackson received a shot at the light heavyweight title after only a single UFC victory against Marvin Eastman. Anderson Silva received a shot at the middleweight title after only a single victory in the UFC against Chris Leben and a 2-1 record in his previous 3 fights, just like Lesnar. Antonio Nogueira received a shot at the heavyweight title after a single UFC victory against Heath Herring and a 2-1 record in his previous 3 fights (again, just like Lesnar). BJ Penn had a shot at the welterweight title even though he had never fought at welterweight in the UFC before. And, last but not least, Randy Couture himself received a shot at the heavyweight title against Tim Sylvia even though he had not fought at heavyweight for over four years and had a record of 2-3 in his last 5 fights. So, don’t slight Lesnar for receiving and taking his shot at the title when the chance presented itself.
A fight between Randy and Fedor will most likely never happen at this point, but there was a pretty slim chance of it ever happening in the first place. Like it or not, a fight between Randy and Brock is very, very intriguing. Sure, Lesnar will have close to a 50 pound weight advantage, but so did Tim Sylvia when they fought. Sure, Lesnar is a strong, powerful wrestler but Couture is no slouch on the ground himself. If, and when, Randy beats Lesnar we then get to most likely see him fight Nogueira which will be another excellent fight.
Randy is back fighting once again so lets all enjoy watching him fight a few more times. Step away from that ledge and jump back onto the roller-coaster that is being an MMA fan and just throw your arms up in the air and enjoy the ride for once.
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All of the people getting mad at the Couture-Lesnar matchup should think of the whole thing as a 4 man tournament. The winner of Couture-Lesnar will face the winner of Minotauro-Mir. Of course the first round of the mini-tournament is going to have fights that aren’t the best matchups possible. But that will just make for a better final.
Doc, about Lesnar getting a title shot this soon.
The guys you mentioned were already MMA veterans and Champions before they came to the UFC. Just because they had a 1-1 record in the UFC doesnt make them noobs, most of them already had another 20 fights outside the UFC against the best fighters in the world.
Brock on the other hand is a complete noob in the MMA world and shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath as guys like BJ, Anderson and Nog. These guys are the best in the world, thats why they got their shots, because they already earned that respect.
Yes and no. Not all of them were champs. Quinton was never a champ in Pride and neither was Anderson Silva. BJ Penn was never a champion in the UFC before his welterweight title shot. Nog was the only guy who ever held a title before.
Sure Quinton, Anderson, and BJ were all very experienced fighters with a reputation even though none had been a champ. I’m not saying they didnt deserve the title shots they received when they got them. I’m just saying, its not unusual for the UFC to give guys titles shots early in their UFC careers.
I dont think Lesnar should be getting a title shot this early in his career. He hasnt earned the right and hasnt worked his way up the chain by climbing the heavyweight ladder. I’m just putting up those examples for the sake of argument on how the UFC hands out title shots.
Do I think Lesnar deserves a shot right now? Asolutely not.
hehe i said Veterans and Champions, not all Champions, but what i mean was theyre all experienced and highly ranked fighters, whereas Lesnar is essentially a baby in MMA.
i’m personally pissed cuzed he dissed big nog,how u gonna leave to fight the “best in the world”to come back to fight someone not even in the top twenty??????????????????????????
I think BV & Richard hit the nail right on the head. Randy has constantly disrespected Nog and several other top-tier heavyweights for that matter.
Anyone who knows me here, is well aware of my often “dislikes” of the UFC’s matchmaking in the past. But, Randy basically cast himself out in the same boat as guys like Travis Lutter and Kalib Starnes…lol…that’s pretty pathetic.
It’s obvious that most of the time, us fans are not getting the fights we want to see today, but have to settle in the hopes that those match-ups will materialize in the very distant future. And, most often than not, what happens is that since MMA is so unpredictable, those same match-ups we dream of, never happen.
I wouldnt put Randy on the level of Kalib Starnes Amir hehe.. and Lutter missed weight on a title fight, its terrible, but it was just one mistake, everyone makes mistakes. I still have alot respect for him as a fighter.
If you think about it, Randy made a mistake too, it was one huge year long mistake, but its not like the guys a douche or something. Thats why i still have alot of respect for Randy too. He messed up, now hes getting back into the cage to make up for it.
Where i have a problem is matching him with Lesnar, its just ridiculous in my opinion.
Oh, and I’ll also go out and say that Randy Couture never really had a dominant, impressive career as a heavyweight to begin with. He only gained his status in the sport because he was able to overcome the odds and win 1 or 2 fights when he wasn’t supposed to.
His main glory came by beating Vitor 2 out of 3
and Kevin Randleman 1 time…both of whom are actually LHW.
In 2002, 2 men dominated the UFC heavies (Barnett, Ricco)
Randy lost to both.
I was just looking at mmaplayground making my final picks for the hot fight this weekend when I noticed that the Lenar/Couture Fight is the hot fight on that card. Is it very often that they have the main event a hot event?
It very likely might change as UFC 91 gets closer. I think they hot bout is determined by which bouts are voted on the most and how closely the fight is being picked by users.
Oh ok. Do you think that it will change?
no idea really.
Doc,
I normally agree with a lot of what you have to say, but I think you’re way off base on this one. Your “defense” of the UFC’s giving Lesnar a title shot by comparing him to Jackson, Silva, et al is ridiculous as has already been pointed out. Lesnar’s experience fighting doesn’t even come close to matching ANY of the guys you mentioned.
Secondly, you said: “Sure, Randy’s image will take a bit of a hit now, but wait a week or two, and especially after UFC 91, and no one will remember any of this nonsense.” IF Randy would lose to Brock @ UFC 91, there will be a ton of backlash on this one. While I admit that as a society we have extreme ADD and only focus on the current news, I don’t think you can just assume the furor will be over quickly because we all want it to be. While I don’t think Lesnar will beat Randy, if he were to pull off the big upset (stranger things have happened over the last 2 years), I don’t think anyone will be forgetting all of this nonsense to quickly.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m thrilled Randy will be fighting again (any idea if he’ll be back commenting?), I can’t say that I necessarily disagree with any of the comments you quoted in the beginning of your post either.
I’m not defending Lesnar getting a title shot.
In fact, if you read my comments, I have explicitly said several times that I don’t think Lesnar should be getting a title shot at this point.
What I was doing was simply giving examples of the UFC’s title shot matchmaking in the past to use as a comparison point.
I’ll say it again, I DONT THINK BROCK DESERVES A TITLE SHOT at this point.
I’m well aware that you’ve said (multiple times) you don’t think he deserves one. My problem was in your defense of the UFC giving it to him.
Doc, i understand that your somehow trying to justify their decision to give Lesnar a shot, even though you dont think he deserves one. The problem was in the comparison you made, bringing up elite fighters like that gives people the wrong idea about your point.
What you should have said was that Lesnar is a huge draw and he can boost the ppv numbers, and thats all. There is no other legitimate reason for them to give him a shot, no comparisons, nothing.
This is the reason why i initially said it was a circus, because even Elite hasnt tried to make Kimbo the champ… yet.
point taken
well it appears the lines have been drawn and people have chosen there sides. on one side we have the people who are disgusted by the match making of the UFC in giving Brock Lesnar a shot at the title, on the other side we have the people who show a bit more understanding towards the UFCs thought process, with a small minority in the middle who ether love the idea or could give a flying sh*t about any of it. my question now is (no matter what category you fit in) if you were in charge how would you have handled the situation? remember they have Nog vs. Mir already booked for Dec.27 for a five round title fight.