Comments on: Gracie Wins at EliteXC, Shamrock DQ’d http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/ ...MMA News and Analysis... Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:22:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Tom http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-12470 Tom Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:15:42 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-12470 Gracie theatrics - period - we've all seen how much pain these guys can take, Renzo included. We also know what a fighter looks like when they're really injured. Either way, Gracie should keep his day job - his acting skills are pathetic, lol... Gracie theatrics – period – we’ve all seen how much pain these guys can take, Renzo included. We also know what a fighter looks like when they’re really injured. Either way, Gracie should keep his day job – his acting skills are pathetic, lol…

]]> By: KT http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-4486 KT Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:39:41 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-4486 After careful review of this footage I would agree the first knee shot was to the neck area and was weak. The 2nd shot I do not agree that it was weak you can clearly see more power in it in addition to this you can also see how Renzo's head and neck are twisted up as the shot came in. The shot landed at the base of the skull where the neck and the head join. This strike landed on pressure points (Triple Warmer). If you do not have an understanding of the effects of pressure points you can learn more about them at one of these two sites: dillman.com or kyusho.com I do think he was injured but to what degree that is unknown. Only he knows for sure and if infact he milked this then shame on him he is the one who will have to live with it. As far as fairness to Frank, Frank did break the rules and if he came there to fight like he was saying as Renzo was trying to recover then maybe he should have stuck to the rules or go do some underground fighting where there are no rules and he can knee people anywhere he pleases to his hearts content. I look forward to seeing a remake of these two I thought the fight was going pretty well for both sides till this mishap happend. After careful review of this footage I would agree the first knee shot was to the neck area and was weak. The 2nd shot I do not agree that it was weak you can clearly see more power in it in addition to this you can also see how Renzo’s head and neck are twisted up as the shot came in. The shot landed at the base of the skull where the neck and the head join. This strike landed on pressure points (Triple Warmer). If you do not have an understanding of the effects of pressure points you can learn more about them at one of these two sites:

dillman.com or kyusho.com

I do think he was injured but to what degree that is unknown. Only he knows for sure and if infact he milked this then shame on him he is the one who will have to live with it. As far as fairness to Frank, Frank did break the rules and if he came there to fight like he was saying as Renzo was trying to recover then maybe he should have stuck to the rules or go do some underground fighting where there are no rules and he can knee people anywhere he pleases to his hearts content.

I look forward to seeing a remake of these two I thought the fight was going pretty well for both sides till this mishap happend.

]]> By: Mons http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-3469 Mons Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:39:10 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-3469 So esentially Renzo stopped fighting cause he had a concussion? And could not continue? Im just a layman here, but dont fighters get hit in the head... A lot? IF a fighter gets hit in the head and cant continue thats a TKO. Im not saying Frank was 100% not at fault, however that was some crappy acting just look at the picture above of Renzo, its humorus. And crap like this that can be detrimental to MMA,...AGAIN remember what happened to the ratings of UFC back in the day when the Gracies first started choking people out in matches? No one wanted to watch or pay 30 bucks for that matter to see people choke each other...they dialed in to see a fight and they didnt want to see ANY WWF crap and didnt want to see anyone choke their way to victory....they wanted no holes barred fighting So esentially Renzo stopped fighting cause he had a concussion? And could not continue? Im just a layman here, but dont fighters get hit in the head… A lot? IF a fighter gets hit in the head and cant continue thats a TKO. Im not saying Frank was 100% not at fault, however that was some crappy acting just look at the picture above of Renzo, its humorus. And crap like this that can be detrimental to MMA,…AGAIN remember what happened to the ratings of UFC back in the day when the Gracies first started choking people out in matches? No one wanted to watch or pay 30 bucks for that matter to see people choke each other…they dialed in to see a fight and they didnt want to see ANY WWF crap and didnt want to see anyone choke their way to victory….they wanted no holes barred fighting

]]> By: salomon http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-3256 salomon Tue, 06 Mar 2007 03:38:35 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-3256 In a way I feel that the rules favored Shamrock. Renzo had side control, And of course was looking for a submission waiting for Shamrock to make a mistake. If you watch the fight you could see that Frank would look at Herb Dean signaling him to stand them back up. Renzo has handskills but you know that his game is on the ground. When Renzo noticed that the ref was about to stand them up he threw some strikes, But herb stood them back up anyway. By no way could you tell me that if herb would of left them on the ground in the first round when Renzo had sidecontrol, that he would've not submitted him. One thing that made me laugh is seeing Maurice Smith coaching Shamrock. For those of you that don't know MMA history 5'10" Renzo submitted 6'2" Knockout artist Maurice smith. So please explain to me if Renzo fought someone so much bigger and stronger why would he quit with someone thats equally matched to him. In a way I feel that the rules favored Shamrock. Renzo had side control, And of course was looking for a submission waiting for Shamrock to make a mistake. If you watch the fight you could see that Frank would look at Herb Dean signaling him to stand them back up. Renzo has handskills but you know that his game is on the ground. When Renzo noticed that the ref was about to stand them up he threw some strikes, But herb stood them back up anyway. By no way could you tell me that if herb would of left them on the ground in the first round when Renzo had sidecontrol, that he would’ve not submitted him. One thing that made me laugh is seeing Maurice Smith coaching Shamrock. For those of you that don’t know MMA history 5’10″ Renzo submitted 6’2″ Knockout artist Maurice smith. So please explain to me if Renzo fought someone so much bigger and stronger why would he quit with someone thats equally matched to him.

]]> By: R.J. St.Croix http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-3230 R.J. St.Croix Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:33:45 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-3230 @mons the knees to the back of the head were NOT legal and renzo didnt move his ass after the first one because he should have not gotten hit with it in the first place and he probably wasnt expecting a second illegal strike. herb dean has made a few calls that people didnt like but that doesnt make him a bad ref. at this point people will rag on herb no matter what he does. the reason the ref has the power to stop the fight is for the fighters protection and to look out for the companys investments. look at what happen to tim sylvia when he got his arm broke because he wouldnt tap. he had to rebuild his career after that and the ufc had one less fighter to book. @mons

the knees to the back of the head were NOT legal and renzo didnt move his *** after the first one because he should have not gotten hit with it in the first place and he probably wasnt expecting a second illegal strike. herb dean has made a few calls that people didnt like but that doesnt make him a bad ref. at this point people will rag on herb no matter what he does. the reason the ref has the power to stop the fight is for the fighters protection and to look out for the companys investments. look at what happen to tim sylvia when he got his arm broke because he wouldnt tap. he had to rebuild his career after that and the ufc had one less fighter to book.

]]> By: Mons http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-3228 Mons Sun, 04 Mar 2007 21:04:04 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-3228 Renzo Gracie feigned/faked injury, lost heart to fight OMG, If there is a single soul out there besides the Gracie camp that think Renzo was actually injured with 2 taps to the side of the head/neck region is a complete bafoon. And Herb Dean continually stops fights prematurely, MMA is like any other sport, and the refree should not decide who the victor should be, unless the obvious, a knockout, tap out, choke out. Herb said he warned Frank not to knee Renzo side of head/lower neck region, which is perfectly leagal. And another thing if you are on someone trying to smother him and you get hit with one blow that hurts, move your ass out of the way. If it was indeed a warning why didnt Herb seperate the fighters and warn Frank? Why didnt Herb give sufficent warning if he had felt there was an infraction? This guy shouldnt be a refree, and If I were in the audience I would have thrown my beer at him. Another idiot of the night would have to be Goldburg who was one of the announcers, he repeated several times, 'Its like getting a baseball bat to the back of the head', REALLY? Seems unlikely that a fighter under someone could even generate 15% of the force of a swinging baseball bat with his knees. What would have been more accurate is 'Its kind of like getting half a swing with a wiffle bat to the side of the head lower neck region' Maybe John Madden should play by play the next Elite event. 'Well ya know when your big brother comes up and slaps you upside the head, its kind of like that' Disgusting acting job on Renzos part, my perdiction is we will never see him fight again, hes done Renzo Gracie feigned/faked injury, lost heart to fight
OMG, If there is a single soul out there besides the Gracie camp that think Renzo was actually injured with 2 taps to the side of the head/neck region is a complete bafoon. And Herb Dean continually stops fights prematurely, MMA is like any other sport, and the refree should not decide who the victor should be, unless the obvious, a knockout, tap out, choke out. Herb said he warned Frank not to knee Renzo side of head/lower neck region, which is perfectly leagal. And another thing if you are on someone trying to smother him and you get hit with one blow that hurts, move your *** out of the way. If it was indeed a warning why didnt Herb seperate the fighters and warn Frank? Why didnt Herb give sufficent warning if he had felt there was an infraction? This guy shouldnt be a refree, and If I were in the audience I would have thrown my beer at him. Another idiot of the night would have to be Goldburg who was one of the announcers, he repeated several times, ‘Its like getting a baseball bat to the back of the head’, REALLY? Seems unlikely that a fighter under someone could even generate 15% of the force of a swinging baseball bat with his knees. What would have been more accurate is ‘Its kind of like getting half a swing with a wiffle bat to the side of the head lower neck region’ Maybe John Madden should play by play the next Elite event. ‘Well ya know when your big brother comes up and slaps you upside the head, its kind of like that’ Disgusting acting job on Renzos part, my perdiction is we will never see him fight again, hes done

]]> By: Brian http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-2946 Brian Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:39:30 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-2946 well guys, the rule is NOT that you can't deliver a knee to the head or neck, because you sure can. what you can't do is deliver a knee to the head when someone is down, it doesn't matter if he's on top of you. If he's not up on his feet, he's ineligible to be kneed to the head. Shamrock was doing what a member of the shamrock family would typically do after the fight, smirking and looking like an idiot. If someone took him out with groin kicks, I'd like to see what he would think of them smirking and clowning like they were something special. wonder what would happen to him if he hadn't cheated. Probably would've had his ass kicked, as he was up to the point where he delivered what ALL of these guys know are illegal blows. Reminded me of Hughes being set up by St. Pierre's two low blows before he got the better of him, and of the way that the Iceman hit his two hardest opponents - Couture and Ortiz, both in the eye and blinded them before knocking them out. Have you ever looked at his tattoo? Kenpo. Do you know that you learn eye strikes in kenpo, even from early on? There's a lot of illegal blows that wind up in wins in this sport, and the people who get in that ring have more guts and heart than any but a small percentage of people can imagine. I'm sure as it goes along it'll somehow level out for the clean fighters, and it's the most exciting and entertaining thing I've ever watched. I love it, there's just some guys who take advantage of anything. Shamrock's one, and I was proud of Herb Dean, calling it like it was. Brian well guys, the rule is NOT that you can’t deliver a knee to the head or neck, because you sure can. what you can’t do is deliver a knee to the head when someone is down, it doesn’t matter if he’s on top of you. If he’s not up on his feet, he’s ineligible to be kneed to the head. Shamrock was doing what a member of the shamrock family would typically do after the fight, smirking and looking like an idiot. If someone took him out with groin kicks, I’d like to see what he would think of them smirking and clowning like they were something special. wonder what would happen to him if he hadn’t cheated. Probably would’ve had his *** kicked, as he was up to the point where he delivered what ALL of these guys know are illegal blows. Reminded me of Hughes being set up by St. Pierre’s two low blows before he got the better of him, and of the way that the Iceman hit his two hardest opponents – Couture and Ortiz, both in the eye and blinded them before knocking them out. Have you ever looked at his tattoo? Kenpo. Do you know that you learn eye strikes in kenpo, even from early on? There’s a lot of illegal blows that wind up in wins in this sport, and the people who get in that ring have more guts and heart than any but a small percentage of people can imagine. I’m sure as it goes along it’ll somehow level out for the clean fighters, and it’s the most exciting and entertaining thing I’ve ever watched. I love it, there’s just some guys who take advantage of anything. Shamrock’s one, and I was proud of Herb Dean, calling it like it was. Brian

]]> By: Frank Shamrock’s Fall From Grace » MMA HQ - Mixed Martial Arts News and Analysis http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-2642 Frank Shamrock’s Fall From Grace » MMA HQ - Mixed Martial Arts News and Analysis Wed, 21 Feb 2007 03:09:50 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-2642 [...] Renzo Gracie and Frank Shamrock. If for some reason you haven’t yet heard about this fight, Renzo Gracie won the fight after Frank Shamrock was disqualified for illegal knee strikes to the [...] [...] Renzo Gracie and Frank Shamrock. If for some reason you haven’t yet heard about this fight, Renzo Gracie won the fight after Frank Shamrock was disqualified for illegal knee strikes to the [...]

]]> By: richard http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-2464 richard Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:02:53 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-2464 dr j i get what ur saying sakuraba broke his hand cuz he didnt tap so that takes gutts i forgot about that maybe he was hurt dr j i get what ur saying sakuraba broke his hand cuz he didnt tap so that takes gutts i forgot about that maybe he was hurt

]]> By: Dr J http://www.mmahq.com/blog/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/comment-page-1/#comment-2445 Dr J Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:09:51 +0000 http://www.mmahq.com/2007/02/11/gracie-wins-at-elitexc-shamrock-dqd/#comment-2445 @PATRICK, not sure what you are trying to say, but if you are questioning Renzo Gracie's heart and saying that he was faking injury just to get a victory, you better do a little MMA research homework and look into Renzo Gracie's career. Renzo is probably the last person on the planet that would fall into that category and the last MMA fighter on earth that I would say had no heart. @PATRICK,

not sure what you are trying to say, but if you are questioning Renzo Gracie’s heart and saying that he was faking injury just to get a victory, you better do a little MMA research homework and look into Renzo Gracie’s career. Renzo is probably the last person on the planet that would fall into that category and the last MMA fighter on earth that I would say had no heart.

]]>